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An Imaginary World

 

About the author: Becky is a conservative citizen activist who grew up in the 1980's Reagan era. During that time it was not unusual for American's to hear a great deal about the Cold War and to be concerned about the possibility of a nuclear war. When the Cold War ended, American entered an era of peace and prosperi ... [read 's FULL BIO]

Once upon a time, government was a far away thing that people were largely unaware of except when wars were being fought or infrastructure, like railroads or highways, were coming to their area. People knew they had to be self reliant because there were no agencies to turn to, no federal or state assistance to care for them when they had families to feed, and charities were comprised of locals who wanted to help people out of the goodness of their hearts, if they existed in an area at all. In that time, people lived, as they do today, according to Gods law or contrary to it. But they usually suffered the harsh consequences of their misdeeds and we didn’t apologize for it. Today, anything goes.

In 1902, the federal governments revenue accounted for 2.71% of the Gross Domestic Product. Include state and local taxes and the total burden then was about 7%. Today, that total is over 35%. Before the permanent income tax was imposed in 1913 the government got most of their tax dollars from real estate and other property taxes. Today it is derived primarily from income taxes. With steadily high unemployment and so many of those who are employed working for the government, whose only income is gained from taxing people, the math isn’t hard to do. Government, bureaucracies, and pension liabilities continue to grow at an alarming rate, and big brother is in your life to stay.

My primary fight for the last few years has been for the protection of our constitutional rights. I have seen a huge push by progressive liberals to transform America into a socialist ideal, because their evil leaders have convinced the sheeple that this is the height of compassion and humanity, to level the playing field so that no one has more than anyone else. My fear of losing my rights and of America being remade into this communist dream has motivated me. But last night I listened to a speech entitled “The Second Amendment: A Knife in a Gun Fight” by Ted R. Weiland, and it got me thinking.

A persons worldview makes all the difference when we are speaking of rights, responsibilities, and governance of those things. Weiland asserts that the Bill of Rights, and, indeed, even the Constitution, were written by men to govern men. But those things defined as rights, such as the right to bear arms (which assumes a right to protect and defend oneself and family, as well as the right to put down tyrants) were assigned to us by God as responsibilities, not rights. This begs the question, are we neglecting our responsibilities to God in lieu of accepting the rights granted to us by men who would presume to tell us what we may or may not do?

Before you go into a rant defending the system our founding fathers put into place, let us explore what this fantasy world might look like if we were to accept what God has deemed to be the things we must do to live righteous lives, and if we were to reject the notion that man can transform God’s commands to be responsible into rights delegated and regulated by sinful man.

How might the world be different if those of us who called ourselves Christians actually lived a life based on the examples Jesus Christ gave us? Would the churches still be strong influences in our societies? Would the government endeavor to remove God from the public square and replace Him? Would those in need turn to churches for aid and guidance instead of Uncle Sam, who has made it legal to rob us of our earnings in order to place a hook in the mouths of those who are happy to worship at the altar of the false god of government? Would American prisons be bursting at the seams with desperate people who are not dissuaded from their criminal activities by the fear of real judgment? Would the progressive agenda be able to get a foothold in society with their humanist agenda of self service and pleasure?

I don’t know the answers to all these questions. What I do know is that this once great nation is suffering a moral decline that has us on the brink of total collapse. Churches are now fearful that the government will take away their tax exempt statuses and pastors receive letters from Uncle demanding that they refrain from speaking to their congregations about elections. The Catholic Church has stopped doing adoptions because of government mandates that affect their ability to do their righteous work in accordance with their biblical beliefs. Christians across the nation are under attack by unbelievers who are willing to allow society to degenerate into Sodom and Gomorrah in order to defy God and worship self. But many Christians, instead of standing firmly on their Foundation, are busy trying to convert non believers in a manner that makes Jesus Christ anything but appealing to them. How many of us are missing the log in our own eye because we are busy seeing the speck in someone else’s?

If you’re a Star Trek fan you will be familiar with the term “brave new world.” I’m pretty sure that is how progressives view the path we are on. If Weiland is right, we have been on an inevitably declining course since the beginning. I know I will hear from the non Christians who will caution that not all conservatives are Christians and that I should be careful not to promote such a thing. This is all I can offer you. I am a Christian and I believe in the bible. I do not believe it is any Christians right or responsibility to force anyone to worship God. But I do believe it is our duty to live as God commanded us to live and to be active in the political arena so as not to allow our morality to be determined or governed by politicians or liberals. God is our moral compass. And our responsibility is to Him, not to the progressive agenda, and not to Uncle Sam.

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  • jenniewalsh

    Every America needs to type in, watch and learn a lot from the 2.5 hour video, “America, Freedom to Fascism” Organized crime is running, plundering and destroying America at an alarming rate.

  • FedupandReadytofight

    Thank you for the article, Becky. It is just like we try to do for our kids; Lead by example. We also need to be a leader in this world, by example. I am not a friend to Islam, but can you undestand why they think of us as infidels? and want to destroy us? All you have to do is look at our society. Are we not like Sodom and Gomorrah? In the Biblical past, has God not let other armies attack and conquer his chosen people when they stray far enough away? Why is it that we can’t learn from history.
    I teach my own children that we can only do our part. We can’t change the world all by ourselves. But together, if we each do our own small part, we can accomplish great things. The scriptures are our guide in this endeavor. Prayer is like a tutor; there to help you when needed.
    Unfortunately, prayer and the Bible alone, are not enough to straighten our country out in our lifetime. I am also a warrior, and soon the word will be given to straighten this country out by force. I am ready to do my small part.

    • coastx

      You idiot. “They” wrote the bible you are using to invoke salvation. They are HOPING you will pray making it easier for them to pounce. Cathars? INQUISITION… WAKE THE FXXK UP!

    • Becky

      Fedup, While I can agree with some of your comments I disagree with your statement “but can you undestand why they think of us as infidels? and want to destroy us?” They think of us as infidels because their Koran tells them so. They want to destroy us because that is what their false god orders them to do. Theirs is a religion of hate and murder, of oppression and destruction. Our God is a God of order. While there may be some merit to the idea that that they are more loyal to their god, there are no other similarities.

      At any rate, I’m glad you’re in the fight with us.

      • FedupandReadytofight

        I don’t disagree with you that they have a false religion, and the Koran instructs them to hate infidels. I was just saying that our country is going the way of all other great civilizations. We (as a whole) have lost sight of our God, and without his direction, we are turning into a Sodom and Gomorrah. I have been over there (Saudi & Kuwait), and talked to them on a mutually acceptable conversation (I think we both enjoyed talking to each other face to face and discussing these things). They specifically pointed out the declining moral structure of western civilization and used it to justify their beliefs.
        I can agree with them, that our declination of morals is dispicable and something to be loathed.
        But, like you, I believe in my God, not theirs. They have a lot of misdirectin from the one they believe to be their holy leader. And because of their beliefs, they are to be feared as an enemy of our United States.

  • agbjr

    “[A]ll power is originally vested in, and consequently derived from, the people. That government is instituted and ought to be exercised for the benefit of the people; which consists in the enjoyment of life and liberty and the right of acquiring property, and generally of pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. That the people have an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform or change their government whenever it be found adverse or inadequate to the purpose of its institution.”

    James Madison

  • Robert S Moulds

    Too bad it’s not a perfect world and the people of western countries have become so dependent on government. It will be a hard road to self reliant yet altruiestic people if you can do it you are better than I.

  • Becky, thank you for the great article and for making mention of my message “The Second Amendment: A Knife in a Gunfight,” which, by the way, I preached last March (at the Springfield, MO, Firearms and Freedom Symposium) to an audience of nearly a thousand, consisting of predominately pro-Constitution and Second Amendment advocates.

    For anyone else who would like to listen to it, they can find it at bibleversusconstitution.com/#FeaturedMessages. At the same location, you will also find a radio interview Larry Pratt (Executive Director of Gun Owners of America) conducted with me on the same subject–that is on non-optional God-expected responsibilities versus optional constitutional rights. I think you will find Mr. Pratt’s remarks especially interesting.

    • coastx

      Go play with yourself.

    • ClintLowell

      I am sure I will be accused of “smorgasbording” scripture, but just to yet again attempt to get an honest answer …. and not a re-direct to one of your own personal, self-interpreted “sermons” … what exactly is it you are attempting to accomplish Mr Weiland? You say that “we can’t win bringing a knife to a gun fight? ” Oh, but we can ….”For the Word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” ~ Hebrews4:12 …. ” Gird your sword on your side, you mighty one; clothe yourself with splendor and majesty. ” ~ Pslam 45:3

      Or is what your trying to say is that every honest Christian man and woman should not follow our pagan, biggot government and pick up a Bible? If this is your point then I would agree! But whom shall we follow? Who’s interpretation? Christ did not establish “constitutional rights ” and what He did establish is not the Levitical Law and all 613 of its orders to be carried on today. Love. Love is the key and love is the answer, not separatism.

      “He made my mouth like a sharpened sword, in the shadow of his hand he hid me; he made me into a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.” ~ Isaiah 49:2 ” Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. ” ~ Ephesians 6:17

      • T. Edward Price

        Clint, you are taking the metaphorical as literal. The knife to which Mr. Weiland refers is the insufficiency of the 2nd Amendment to afford us protection, since it will ultimately crumble, as do all man made decrees. Therefore, we should endeavor to derive our authority from God’s decrees to us, not man’s.

        “Christ did not establish “constitutional rights ” and what He did establish is not the Levitical Law and all 613 of its orders to be carried on today.” Amen to the first part of your statement. That is exactly the point of Mr. Weiland’s messages concerning God-expected RESPONSIBILITIES, instead of Humanistic “rights”. As for the second part of that statement, did you actually INTEND to say that Christ DID NOT establish the levitical law? If not, then who did? Even your Catholic doctrine teaches that Christ is God, manifest in the flesh. That means that Christ is, and always has been God. What is open for discussion is what part, if any, of the Law is still in effect. You must first understand that Yahweh’s perfect law was in effect in the garden, encompassing commandments, statutes, and judgments. What appears to confuse you are the blood ordinances which were added 430 after Abraham: “What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.” Gal. 3:17

        With see that the sacrificial blood ordinances were not the same as commandments, statutes, and judgments. It was only the blood ordinances that were nailed to the cross with Christ, leaving completely intact His perfect law, as it has been from the beginning: “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES [emphasis added] that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross…” Col. 2:14

        Christ did most certainly give us the levitical law, as the same God Who later came manifest in the flesh. Mr. Weiland is correct in his statement. And as for what he is attempting to accomplish, that is simple. It appears to me that he is doing what His Father in Heaven has anointed him to do: to preach the Gospel of Christ, in season and out.

        • ClintLowell

          Amen. A man made “amendment” that is not based off of God’s law is false and fallible. My concern is based with who’s interpretation of Gods law’s today do we follow? Anti-Semitism is not a beatific guideline that was laid down by Christ, or God, ever. Christ set the perfect example of how to defend our selves and it does not begin with mis-interpreting Luke 22:38, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, and many others. When we study Marcion, Arius, Luther, Calvin, Thomas Jefferson and many others, we see the negative issues at hand with self interpretation. It leads to mass confusion chaos and our own idea of what we “think” is what the Bible tell us. Christianity does involve a certain level of separatism but becoming separatists within already separated goodness should not include “doing your own thing.” Christ did not “give” us the Levitical Law. God gave us the Levitical Law through Moses on Sinai. This is where the priesthood established through Aaron began. Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant to establish his New Covenant, which included the encompassing of all previous covenants ( Adamic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, etc ). He didn’t change anything, he is God, he fulfilled them. So are we to follow the Sabbath, Dietary Laws, are we to stay away from our wives while they are menstruating? The list goes on … Should we stone whores, or forgive them and encourage and teach them, to repent, get baptized and be saved? Moses himself married an Ethiopian, should we refuse interracial marriage and proclaim anti-Semitism?

          • T. Edward Price

            Clint: “Christ did not “give” us the Levitical Law. God gave us the Levitical Law through Moses on Sinai.”

            Again, you fail to acknowledge the eternal Oneness of Yahweh (God) and Christ.

            Clint: “So are we to follow the Sabbath, Dietary Laws, are we to stay away from our wives while they are menstruating?”

            And again, you fail to understand the law. Commandments, statutes, and judgments, were with Adam in the garden. Cain was guilty of murder, and according to the law, was deserving of death; but also, according to the law, there were not the required two witnesses to enact the death penalty. You don’t seem to understand that he Sabbath, as a commandment, is indeed still in existence. The matter of monthly cycles, on the other hand, were part of the ordinances regarding temple cleanliness. We no longer make temple sacrifices, since Christ is our Eternal sacrifice. You must be able to make the distinction between the ever-abiding law, and ordinances: “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES [emphasis added] that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross…” Col. 2:14

            Twice you mentioned anti-semitism, and you accuse OTHERS of ‘self-interpreting’? What did anti-semitism have to do with this? Do you even know the definition of anti-semite? To know that, you must know what semite, or semitic, means.

            And, lastly, what does any of this have to do with “rights” versus responsibilities, or the wonderful article by Becky Kress?

          • ClintLowell

            Fail to acknowledge of Yahweh? God made Himself and and God put Himself on the Cross for us … this I understand clearly … it is anti-Semitical separation and the sort of Christian supremacy you and many others seem to claim that I do not understand. ” I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes from through the law, then Christ ( Yahweh ) died for nothing.” ( Gal2:21) How much more clear do you need it? This is coming from a Pharisee who killed Christians … Gods law were established with Adam … the perfectness of it soon was destroyed …. and it got worse … the GOLDEN CALF incident at Sinai was causal for a strict set of Laws that GOD fulfilled on the Cross. “It is finished” …. what is finished? The Covenant … what Covenant? The Covenant Jeremiah tells us about in chapter 31 of his prophetic book … pay close attn to verse 32 … then have a look at John 13:34 and Rev 21:1. The New Covenant is everlasting and will remain unbroken? Why? Because Christ is our High Preist, our King and our perfect Sacrifice … unlike the Levite priests established through Aaron … Christ was not from the Tribe of Levi, He derived from Judah …. ordained in the same order as Melchizedek … why was Melchizedek special? Because he was a king and a preist …. the Levitical law was something that was not part of the everlasting Covenant …. your interpretation of the law I do fail to understand …. the Sabbath was CLEARLY explained in Mark 2:27 “”The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” Why would Jesus (God) pluck grain on the Sabbath? Let me guess your response … because the “elders” who had been teaching it for hundreds of years had been teaching it wrong? One day of rest out of our seven day cycle is needed and commanded and ever Christian should obey this commandment …. but the Sabbath as Mission to Israel teaches it is false. Following the Lunar Cycle is no where in the Bible. I am aware of the decedents of Shem. I have most of Mr Weilands books and to say he is not anti-Semitic is to say that corn doesn’t grow in Nebraska.

          • T. Edward Price

            I’ll address your last comment first. Having most of Mr. Weiland’s books is meaningless, if you are completely unable to look past your faulty presumptions, in order to understand what he has written. You accuse Mr. Weiland of being anti-Semitic without offering the first shred of proof. You accuse him of being anti-Semitic without the ability to give a biblical definition. Prove it biblically or REPENT! Of course, if your Catholicism teaches you that all law is done away, then there is no longer a Ninth Commandment, therefore you are free to slander (lie) without consequence.

            ‘Clint: ” I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes from through the law, then Christ ( Yahweh ) died for nothing.” ( Gal 2:21)”‘

            Amen! I couldn’t agree more. But when did Mr. Weiland EVER say that we are justified through our observance of the law? Is Paul saying that grace voids the law? Let him answer that: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?”
            (Rom. 6:1-2 NASB)

            And what is sin? “Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.” (1 John 3:4 NASB)

            How can there be sin without the law? Sin means LAWLESSNESS! Or, as the KJV says: “for sin is the transgression of the law.” So Paul is asking, “do we transgress [VIOLATE] the law [commit sin] in order to attain grace? May it never be!

            Clint: “Gods law were established with Adam … the perfectness of it soon was destroyed…”.

            King David: “The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul;The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
            The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
            The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
            The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
            The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether. (Psalms 19:7-9 NASB)

            “But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.” (James 1:25 NASB)

          • ClintLowell

            Know one has ever said anything about the law being done away with. Yes the perfect law God established with Adam was destroyed ( sin ). My faulty presumptions with Pastor Weilands books …. ? How is he not anti-Semitic? Oh wait … because the Khazarian Jews “did not have a drop of Semitic blood in there veins ….” For brevity’s sake, I will say this … our idea of Gods law is probably closer than we realize … however … the temporary covenant Yahweh established at Sinai, the “golden calf incident”, was not the first law God established … Sinai was not the same covenant as before….. we can see this with Melchizedek …. he offered BREAD & WINE, not the slaughter of millions of animals annually … he was a king and a priest unlike the Levites …. Gods temporary covenant He made with Moses is not the same covenant as follows today ….. the Ten Commandments always have been and always will be …. with an emphasis on love, not self interpretation anti-Semitic separatism … I am sure you “KJV” explains that …

          • ClintLowell

            ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF MISUSE OF SCRIPTURE :

            “Gods Covenant People”

            Luke 20:22 (page 54)

            Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no? 23 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? 24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar’s. 25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s.

            On page 53, Pastor Weiland says “Although many modern Christians claim that Yhshua promoted paying taxes to Caesar when he declared, ‘Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s,’ the context of this verse shows that Yhshua was teaching quite the opposite.”

            He reads into it that Jesus did not answer their questions directly because he was not paying taxes, and that those who served God should give their tribute to Him and His administrators!

            However, Jesus said this after making a point that it was Caesar’s image on the coin. The coin was minted by Caesar and belonged to him. If Caesar wanted it back, then it was to be returned to him. This is the only consistent explanation with the other passages that teach payment of taxes. I don’t like to pay taxes either but the government owns the money, and I owe it to them for the services I receive.

            In spite of this, pastor Weiland struggles to make it appear that Romans 13:6-7 does not refer to paying taxes to Rome. To whom else would the people at Rome be paying taxes? Payments by Christians to the church would certainly not be called “tribute.”

            Then, on page 54 he compounds this error by conjecturing that in Matthew 17:24-27, Jesus told Peter to pay the tax, “only so that he would not be proven a liar.”

            Apparently, neither Peter nor Matthew held Mr. Weiland’s “insight.” When asked by the tax collectors, “Does your master pay tribute?” Peter responded, “yes.” Peter, who was there and in a much better situation to know what Jesus did, plainly said that he paid tribute and neither Jesus nor Matthew contradicted that. Only pastor Weiland makes Peter to be a liar.

            This appears to have been the temple tax. To make the point that, as the son of God, he would properly be exempt, Jesus pointed out that the kings of the earth take custom or tribute of strangers, not their own children. However, “lest we offend them” (not to keep Peter from being a liar), he tells him to pay the tax.

            Pastor Weiland entirely misses a major point of the lesson. If, as the Son of God, in order to avoid causing people to stumble, Jesus paid taxes that he did not justly owe, they should do the same. That strikes squarely at a major problem of anti-tax advocates. By refusing to pay, they not only may end up in jail, but they disgrace Christ in the eyes of the world. My answer to those who claim they have no obligation to pay taxes to worldly governments is the same as Jesus answered another fellow who was trying to wiggle around responsibility, “Go thou and do likewise.” (Luke 10:37)

          • T. Edward Price

            Not only have you proven yourself to be intellectually incapable of discernment, you have once again FAILED to demonstrate how ANY of your slanderous accusations have ANYTHING to do with the wonderful and thought provoking article written by Becky Kress. As far as “rendering unto Caesar”, Ted is completely correct: NOTHING belonged to Caesar, not even the coin. For you to claim differently is to make Caesar a god. And for you to take Matthew 17 literally means that we ARE NOT required to pay ANY tax, unless Christ first provides us with the fish containing sufficient shekels with which to pay the tax.
            Your illogical, irrational, slanderous rants serve no purpose other than to expose your antagonism toward anyone NOT a Roman Catholic. Disagree all you want, but quit hijacking threads meant to engage in spirited but respectful discourse concerning the subject matter of the article. Next time, at least READ the article before exposing your cluelessness!

          • ClintLowell

            “… exposing my cluelessness ….” How so? And how do I make Caesar a god anymore than you make Ted Weiland a god? Point me to a thread where we can discuss your ideals on biblical self-interpretation and I will leave this sight ….. if I am in violation of the policy, by all means, “blacklist” me …. but until then, please, give me a good, solid biblical reason to believe your idea, or Pastor Weilands idea of Scripture. And how am I being anymore disrespectful than you? How am I picking on anyone for not being Catholic? Your the only one bringing Catholicism up …. I would like some sold biblical evidence for your interpretation of separatism and how your idea of the Law God established with Adam was the same as the one established at Sinai…

            The classic covenant formula in Scripture is God’s promise: ” I will be your God and you will be my people.” God’s promise is always matched by an oath sworn by the people, an act of faith, a pledge to keep the ( Leviticus 26:12; Exodus 6:7; 2 Corinthians 6:16-18 ). With each succeeding covenant in Scripture … with Adam and Eve on the seventh day of creation and with Noah after the flood, with Abraham, Moses and David, and finally with the New Covenant written in the blood of Jesus … God revelas more fully his desire to fashion all humanity into his family. With each succeeding covenant, he reveals more fully his intention to raise human beings up to be his divine sons and daughters, partakers of his blessedness, his divine nature ( 2 Peter 1:4).

            Christ’s New Covenant fulfills all the new covenants of the promise talked about in Ephesians 2:12, 19.

        • Chris Fostel

          In point of fact Christ came to point out that mankind’s devotion to Levitical law was blotting out the understanding of God’s primary law to love the one true God above all other beings and above all other things and to love each other with greater passion than we love even our own selves. As Christ said, “On
          this is all the law founded.”

          Further, the Bible was not written by men. It was divinely inspired and copied down in print for men. The same has been said of the Q’ran, the Book of Mormon and other religious texts. Christ’s command was to follow the Spirit where ever it led and to not judge others because they were not on the same path we are on and do not believe precisely as we do.

          It is not our role to judge God’s works, even if we could understand them. If everyone loved only God first and all others more than self, there would be no war, no crime, and no hatred. We would still enjoy great works of individuality inspired by love. It is this that we as Christians must lead others toward, in
          cooperation with the other religions of this world. To do anything else allows us and them to all become ensnared by the meaningless things of this world.

          • T. Edward Price

            Chris: “Christ’s command was to follow the Spirit where ever it led and to not judge others because they were not on the same path we are on and do not believe precisely as we do.”

            Christ: “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14:6

            Chris: ‘It is this that we as Christians must lead others toward, in cooperation with the other religions of this world.”

            Yahweh(God): “Then God spoke all these words, saying, ‘“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods [religions] before Me.”‘ Exodus 20:1-3

          • ClintLowell

            In Pastor Weiland’s book “Gods Covenant People … ” we se all kinds of false claims.
            EXAMPLE OF MISUSE OF SCRIPTURE
            1Cor. 6:1-6 (page 38)
            Pastor Weiland says:
            “It is obvious that the Apostle Paul did not regard the civil authorities of his day as consonant with the magnanimous government he described in Romans 13. Otherwise he would never have told the Corinthian Christians to avoid their jurisdiction:
            “1 Dare any of you [as a Christian], having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust [non-Christian judiciary system], and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 6:1)
            “Note especially that the Apostle Paul was not only dissuading Christians from depending on the ungodly courts of his day, but he was also chiding them for having not formed their own civic body politic, one in accord with verse 3 and 4 of Romans 13. “
            The passage has nothing to do with whether the civil courts were ungodly. At issue is the matter of making a spectacle of their differences before unbelievers. Even if they could have received a fair trial, lawsuits between Christians in public courts would have been a stumbling block to outsiders.
            The claim that this intends for Christians to set up “their own civic body politic” is absurd. He is clearly speaking of an internal ecclesiastical function.

          • ClintLowell

            Amen! The Levitical Law was not the orignal law … It is easy to see that God created a legal system with Israel at Sinai to further break them away from there Egyptian pagan desires …. Christ did make it clear that getting back to His Father’s law, to love one another with a greater passion than we love ourselves, was key and was what He intended to do. Christian unity world wide is not anywhere near breaking Exodus 20:1-3. As long doctrinal, salvational issues are agreed upon that have been established by Christ … ie, baptism, trinity, etc, then Christians should stand united, not divided with anti-Semitic heretics.

        • ClintLowell

          I understand the metaphor of a knife in a gunfight.. Mr Weiland does great things bringing, or attempting to bring, more men to Christ by exposing the US Constitutional lie. I applaud him … BUT, as he has accused me in the past, “smorgasbording” Scripture is a false way of going about doing things. So, since all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work, I thought I would chim in and say, yes, yes we can take a knife to a gun fight.

          Everyone of the Laws that God put the Tribe of Levi in charge of overseeing, lead by Aaron, are not the laws to be continued today. Christ did not command this. He fulfilled all of the Levitical Laws. The blood ordinances nailed to the Cross? What happened at Calvary was a perfect Passover Sacrifice. Again, Levitical Laws were established at Sinai for a pagan infected Israel. Christ is clear in His Gospels what we are to do.

  • coastx

    Everyone’s been cut adrift with ideas, awakened to a sea of political insurrection and no one seems to have a clue what a planet they are on. Watch the Brotherhood of the Bell for the correct understanding what’s happening in DC. We’re dealing with Fabians. 80% OF CONGRESS IS THUS PLEDGED. THIS is why all the confusion. They’re operating on another agenda, one that speaks loudly to their due debts to Wales for all that have been given to them, the constitution having been set aside to promote repatriation.

    You think morality and reason trumps corruption. Not so on planet Pseudologia Fantastica Fabiana. In this Twilight Zone hell, life is ruled by a benevolent Nelsonian government what gifts of leadership are culminating in disintegration of domestic infrastructure while the blissful idiot American moralizes these circumstances with prolific candlelight prayer vigils.

    People think Romney would have been our salvation. ROMNEY IS A FABIAN. OBAMA IS A FABIAN. THE FXXXXXG ENTIRE LEGISLATURE IS COMPOSED OF FABIANS, America either prophetic or giggling and laughing debauched on every side show that’s been thrown at them to interpret this transformation through the eyes of humanitarianism and democratic process, both features of COMMUNITARIANISM, the FLAGSHIP of FABIAN SOCIALISM!

    In my mind, America is a race bred to stupidity. It’s a grunting beast, kind of fat and prone to long stupors of isolation making it an easy catch. One of it’s vulnerabilities is it’s fantasy that a messiah name of Jesus is going to save it all the while it’s got both hands zeroed in an about every debauchery bait that’s been laid to it’s capture. This Jesus is going to rush in and save a race that breeds, eats and parties 24/7…

    …HAHAHA

    We’re in depopulation status with our rulers in the UK, and Fabian leadership in the US is greasing the chute! KEWL! Go ahead and moralize. Believe that ethics rises above syndicate. Place great value on philosophy…IT DOESN’T WORK.

    • the sage

      Revelatory coast…thanks for the input.

    • Becky

      It’s easy to see that you are angry and lost. I can understand why. Without faith in the Savior you have no hope to cling to. Let me explain something to you that you seem not to understand. We (Christians) do not know if Jesus (God) will save America or let her crumble and collapse. We pray America will be saved but we have no delusions that it is a foregone conclusion. Many nations rise and fall. Our hope in Jesus is in our eternity. All men are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. The good news is that Jesus Christ became propitiation for our sins. The perfect lamb of God, Who is sinless, atoned for the sins of mankind. In that we have hope. In that there is grace and mercy. The bible gives is our moral compass. We understand that living according to the Word creates a righteous society. We understand that when people make their gods from their own moral imperative societies crumble. The bible tells us that God’s kingdom will come, that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. If America must crumble into history for that to happen, so be it. Meanwhile, we have an obligation to participate in politics and society to promote our beliefs and the atoning work of Jesus Christ. Your anger does not change that. We can all have discussions about our beliefs, including yours (or your lack thereof) and end up disagreeing. Your angry platitudes are not conducive to that discussion.

  • T. Edward Price

    Becky, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but since your are to blame, it is my responsibility to tell you. I have made the comment to others recently that you were one of my favorite new writers. I’m sorry, but I must take that back. Please ignore the “one of”, and you’re left with “you ARE my favorite new writer! Thank you for the courage to travel down this path. Contrasting God-expected responsibilities versus “rights” is a worthy endeavor, but please be aware that, should you become personally convicted that Mr. Weiland is correct, be prepared to become excoriated as a traitor, among other things. I do not mean to paint a dark picture, but you deserve the truth. I am impressed, and humbled, at your quick response to Mr. Weiland’s message. May God continue to guide you on your path, and may we all continue to learn, and grow, together.

    For anyone who might be interested in what Becky Kress found stimulating, this is the message that Ted Weiland preached at the Firearms Freedom Symposium this past March in Springfield, Mo.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=343-ZPSqJ9c

    • Becky

      Thank you, T Edward. I am humbled by your kind words. I cannot promise that we will always agree on everything but I can promise you that I love to learn, to research, and to understand. If an argument can be presented that I believe is biblically supported I am happy to revise my thinking. We can only grow as we learn.

    • ClintLowell

      Bible Law vs the US Constitution is not contest … Gods laws are perfect, they are just and they should be followed. But what did Christ say about these laws? He didn’t come to change one iota …. He fulfilled them and re-directed us down the better path … the path of a loving Father, not the fearful God of Israel that they had made Yahweh out to be …. you can not have the OT without the NT, and vis versa, but we can not override Christ with Moses either …

      • T. Edward Price

        Clint, you seem to be of the opinion that there was no law until Moses. Adam knew the law. Noah knew the law. Abraham knew the law. Isaac knew the law. Jacob knew the law. The Israelites in Egyptian bondage FORGOT the law, hence the law being written into stone for Moses to reintroduce to Israel. You even agreed that the law is perfect. Why would that which is perfect ever need to be replaced? As far as attempting to “override Christ with Moses”, Christ IS the author of the law, NOT Moses. Christ NEVER abolished the law. To fulfill is not to abolish. You are making Yahweh of the Old Testament a completely different God than Yahweh of the New Testament. They are One and the Same!

      • Clint, regrettably (even tragically), you’re response to is all too typical of modern antinomian (anti-God’s law) Christianity that’s depicted by Jude in the following fashion:

        “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness [licentiousness, NASB], and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1:4)

        If you access to a Webster’s 1828 Dictionary, look up the word licentiousness.

        There are at least 39 New Testament passages that declare that Yahweh’s triune moral law (His commandments, statutes, and judgments) have not been abolished like so many today are preaching. Following are three for your immediate consideration:

        “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17-19)

        “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” (Romans 3:31)

        “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good…. For we know that the law is spiritual….” (Romans 7:12-14)

        For more and for a balanced approach to Yahweh’s law under the New Covenant, see the online book “Law and Kingdom: Their Relevance Under the New Covenant” at bibleversusconstitution.org/law-kingdomFrame.html.

  • John

    Adam and Eve were instructed to go out and make all mankind believers of God, by how they live. Making all men children of God. That is my rough understanding of Genesis, and the rest of the Bible.

  • Jon

    The claims “Government is destroying the morality of our society” and “we should be politically active” are mutually exclusive. If the Government is an immoral force that both substitutes for morality and actively destroys morality in the governed (which is plainly visible,) then keeping your hands clean of it seems to be the only moral response.

    One could argue for abolishing the immoral institution, but the act of doing so relies on violence and coercion and would ultimately end in the erection of another immoral government to replace the first, so it’s hard to see how this could be a moral response.

    One doesn’t infer from the fact that cigarettes are a destructive force on the health of society that we should all focus our energies on making a cigarette that mitigates as many of its health risks as possible. We simply abstain from smoking!

    The changes in our life must come from the impossibility to live otherwise than according to the demands of our conscience not from our mental resolution to try a new form of life.
    Leo Tolstoy

    • Becky

      I disagree. Call me an optimist but I am eternally hopeful that there are still a few good people out there who are really willing to work to reduce government from the behemoth it has become down to something more reasonable. George Washington was an amazing man. He could have had a crown but he refused. He understood what they had fought for and he knew well the dangers we face now. He and others warned us numerous times in their writings. But we slumbered while “it” grew. We didn’t push back when they established a permanent income tax. We kept our noses in our own bubbles while FDR instituted the greatest push towards socialism this nation ever experienced. We barely noticed when they removed the gold standard. We stood by the mantra “NEVER IN AMERICA”, all the while it happened in America. When we finally woke up and realized that we had let it all slip through our fingers it was nearly too late. Communist Party USA put down roots in America in 1913. Their goals can be found in their Manifesto. They have achieved a lot in the last 100 years while we sat idle, swearing NEVER IN AMERICA. Well guess what?